Thread:PrimeNO17/@comment-69.122.94.52-20130731013329/@comment-69.122.94.52-20130801015717

[Admins: please let us know if you have any input on this matter, though I realize this might not be the most high-priority subject at the moment. Thanks.]

Hi again. Sorry about that bracketed stuff above; it's easier to keep stuff in context this way, imo, without making numerous posts. Oh, and I'll add that I apologize for the length...I tend to write in detail, and brevity is a skill I need to work on developing.

Thanks for your reply. I think I can see where you're coming from, since it could make sense to count them that way when referring to 'nameplates', which can span across multiple generations/revisions of cars, whether or not the cars themselves are directly related in anything but 'model' name.

Unfortunately, I must disagree with your method of counting 'models' in this case (for this application) because my research indicates that there's precedent (on this wiki) for just counting them by car entry/article listed. In other words, I looked at both current entries that neither of us touched and past revisions of a few of those manufacturer articles, and saw how this wiki's admins counted and updated the numbers we're talking about. And it would appear that they don't use your method for counting the # of models for that manufacturer. I did notice that they often forgot to update that number, perhaps because it's somewhat small and off to the side, but that's a different issue.

References: past revision of Mazda page (no, it's not an external page; if you see an external link marker that's because it's my workaround as the link wouldn't work otherwise.) That's NFSKutski's edit to the number of models, and that number remains the same on the current revision of the page. Also: past revision of Volkswagen page ; past revision of Ford page

So I'm not saying that anyone's wrong per se, but that in situations like this we should err on the side of preserving the admins' style (of presentation, content, etc.) and intentions when editing live articles. We could certainly offer the admins suggestions on what would improve the wiki, but at least on this wiki they don't like it when we drastically change things around on live pages without asking them first. I'm not saying this is a drastic change, of course, and the admins might actually intend to eventually get rid of these pages or some of their content because there exist too many lists for them to maintain. But I do think you might want to seek their opinions if you plan to change the way the cars/models are counted on all the manufacturer pages. I merely tried to update the numbers that were outdated, perhaps overlooked, but did not try to change the way they're counted on the pages, imho--that's the difference, I think.

(I actually wanted to respond with this earlier, but I was a bit too busy to do so.) It would appear you've also changed the number of models on the Volkswagen page by this point. And I will note that it might get a bit arbitrary and confusing if we use your counting method, once we get into the technicalities of what distinguishes one 'model' from another... I could see how the 1969 and 2012 models of the Ford Mustang Boss 302 might count as one nameplate, as could the 2006 and 2009 Mazda RX-8 models, but what about the Ford Mustang RTR-X, or the 3(?) Mazda RX-7 variations we have? And should we really count the (1970) Ford Escort Mk1 RS1600 and the (1992-1996) Ford Escort RS Cosworth as one model? My examples might not be that great, but I do think it can get confusing and complicated sometimes if we use your counting method.

So yeah, I hope this doesn't somehow discourage you (or anyone) from contributing to the wiki, but I think there's a sort of balance we must strike between doing what we want and respecting the admins' wishes. And I think the numbers were simply intended to just count the number of cars on that list, with no nameplate technicalities involved. But that's what I think--I could be wrong, and the admins might disagree with me. That's why I didn't change the numbers back myself--I don't know what the admins think of this issue, and it's counterproductive and annoying if we start making a litany of edits that conflict each other.

I think that just about covers everything. If you got this far, thanks for reading my rather long (but hopefully thorough) message, and I hope we (and the admins, perhaps) can come to an understanding on how these manufacturer pages should be updated and maintained.

Thanks.